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George Lucas

George Lucas is the creator of Star Wars and an unwitting Agent of Consciousness who helped distribute and indoctrinate children with the Zoroastrian Master Narrative.

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GL: I had studied Joe Campbell, I continue to study Joe Campbell, and I really tried to take these psychological motifs from mythology all over the world...and as a result I was able to take these ideas that go through all society, through all the ages, and bring them down and put them into a razzle-dazzle, Saturday matinee serial, action adventure film.[1]

Interviewer: And did you consciously think about when you were making it that you really want to make this a force for good?[2]

GL: Yes, part of it is to bring back some of those old psychological motifs from mythology...It is basically just the same thing with the Force, which is basically just an amalgamation of all religions...you know, ever since the very beginning it always comes down to this mysterious thing that we can't see that has some kind of power over and/or we have power over it or that we go to it for help...[3]

Interviewer:And you wanted to bring spiritual traditions together in a positive force?[4]

GL Yes...


Interviewer: ...You have struck a very powerful blow for the good, there is no question about that.

GL: Well, if I had really made a difference, we wouldn't be sitting where we are today with the mess that it's in.

“Understand the scale,” director J. J. Abrams had told her when he offered her the part of Rey. “This is not a role in a movie. This is a religion for people. It changes things on a level that is inconceivable.” At the time, Ridley leaped at the opportunity, but she couldn’t have known what was coming."[5]

Full Transcript of Lucasfilm Video

I: What interests you about the conflict between good and evil

G: well a conflict between good and evil is the basic conflict. The universal question is am i a good person. I mean not counting social misfits of course for

I: people like you and me

G: ya know I mean

I: are you a good person I try to be a good person but of course that's a very complicated question

I: it is

G: and it's something you have to ponder because you're doing it every day. You're saying should I do this or shouldn't I do this now through mythology and things were taught certain things that are good and certain things that are bad but a thinking person questions all that say is this really good am I really doing the right thing here am I really being a kind compassionate person because to me that's really about a compassionate person as opposed to a person that is consumed with self-interest or a selfish person those are the two things mm-hmm we all have good and evil in us because we have the selfish side of us and we have the compassionate side of us the idea is how do you keep those things in balance and by keeping those things in balance you can do a lot of good things you're never gonna get, everybody's human, everybody's greedy, when you become greedy then you do bad things to get stuff from other people once you get that stuff then you become afraid once you become afraid that somebody's gonna take it from you then you start striking out at people and you start you get angry at things you get worried didn't that put you in a whole psychological mindset that makes you turns you ultimately into an evil person where you're doing two horrible things two people thinking that you're doing the right thing but you're doing it because you're afraid they're gonna hurt you before you hurt them

I: How did Joseph Campbell affect your thinking when you were formulating the ideas?

G: Joe Camel was a comparative mythologist and the Joseph Campbell angle really came out of my anthropology classes when I was in college yeah I was very curious about the way societies work and why people do the things they do in a society why they form their ideas and I used to always think of mythology as a form of psychological archaeology you're not just thinking up pieces to look at them and try to figure out what is what's going on with a society with mythology you can actually understand the psychological underpinnings of what people actually were thinking what they were afraid of what they felt about their parents what you know the real psychology of the whole thing so that's what sort of started that whole process and I had studied Joe Campbell I continued to study Joe Campbell and I really tried to take these psychological motifs from mythology all over the world as a result I was able to take ideas that go through all societies through all the ages and bring them down and put them into a razzle-dazzle Saturday matinee serial action-adventure film.

I: And did you consciously think about when you were making it you really wanted to make this a force for the good

G: yes part of it is it bringing back some of those old psychological motifs from mythology that, part of it was I just wanted to see if they were still relevant. I knew they were but you don't really know a lot of its turning to Freud and Jung and but you you kind of know things are still working that way a little bit but I didn't know how much how much are just the basics of what are friends for why do you join together in a society to help each other your relationship to your father your relationship to the generation that came before you that seems to accrued everything up and how do you feel about passing that on to your kids and how do your kids feel about the fact that you've been handed this mess from the earlier generation you know can you be stronger than your father in terms of the temptations that he was over you know the things he was maybe able to come over overcome or not overcome maybe he's very successful it would still have a lot of flaws..

I: right

G: So there's a lot of complicated things that are put in there you know there are basic issues that you want to deal with it's the same thing with a force which is basically just like an amalgamation of all religions and what all you know ever since the very beginning it always comes down to this mysterious thing that we can't see that has some kind of power over us and or we have power over it or we go to it for help that explains a lot of the things that the mysteries that we can't explain any other way

Audio Clip:

Yoda: for my Ally is the force and appalled for colleges bleeds it makes it grow its energy surrounds us and binds us luminous beings are we not this crude matter you must feel the force around you. You. Between you... Me. The rock. Everywhere. Yes. even between the land and this ship

I: And you wanted to bring spiritual traditions together in a positive force

G: yes to say it's okay to believe whatever you believe organizers religions have a place but in the end when they start saying things that are not positive and are not compassionate they're not caring you know the Inquisition's and all killing people in the name of God is wrong there's just no question about because that's absolutely opposite of what all gods Shaman everybody have taught us which is God is love not God is hate.

I: So if you were gonna put together you know the power of this influence that Star Wars has been in the world right and the kids that come up to you they've come up to you in different cultures yes

G: all around the world

I: Do you have any stories about that

G: one is just the look on their faces when they talk about where their voice goes which is you know really inspired things you know we discovered early on with with Star Wars because that was before video tape and everything so we would get requests when the first bar were from hospitals there would be a child who would be dying and they said can we see the movie because he's not gonna last the week ... so we'd show him the movie and he would live for another six or nine months and it wasn't once that this happened it happened hundreds of times and you just sort of say well whatever we're giving them whatever inspiration would give them allows them to take the struggle further

I: Absolutely

G: And you know and maybe embrace the fact that it may not be that bad in the end

I: So what do you think's in Star Wars helps them do that

G: Well, I just think the fact that they that there is good in the world and there's kindness in the world and that they can go on and and laugh and enjoy themselves and that there is always change so if it changes down then they will change back up again they won't it's not like life is not a constant so you're not just going downhill or you're not just going uphill

I: And maybe they feel the force within and then one might say that there's a continuity so the child begins to think well maybe there's something beyond

G: Right well that's conceptually when you get into the force and you get into the Living Force and the Uber Force which is basically well however you want to call it heaven or born again or however you want to you know in terms of karma that there is a continuum and that you join the force when you die and you lose your personality but you become one with this bigger living entity.

I: if you look at Star Wars you know they're different kinds of myth as a heroic myth there's the Democratic myth there's religious myth its economic myth where would you put Star Wars in the context of those mythic traditions

G: Well it's the hero's myth really I mean it there's a whole political side to it which is the same as the mythological side of it which is where you take one of the issues was is how does a democracy turn itself into a dictatorship which I was fascinated with happens in Rome happened in France it happened in Germany and what causes that to happen so that was the political side of things because the mythological side was more psychological was more on the personal side of relationships and how people were doing things

I: so we had the head of the Stanford School of Design on David Kelly we talked about creativity and he was saying that your creative tell you about the fourth grade and then it pushes you into a channel and so the key to be creative is to find the child that you were. **

G: Well the thing is being creative basically means and have an imagination it means you work inside the box you know like the beaten in the box

I: When did you realize you were outside the box

G: Pretty early on that's why I didn't do well in school

O: how did you learn to trust you're outside the boxness?

I: Well I didn't really trust it until I got into film school and I realized that I could do something that I could do that nobody else could do so suddenly I was like the best of everybody there is because the way I was thinking was normally not the way other people thought and and I could see very clearly the ones that were trying to follow the box the ones that we're trying to put tab A into tab B and that [intelligible], they weren't gonna ever go anywhere you know you had to say that doesn't work guys look if you work inside the box you'll never win the game. That's where politics comes in because politics is a big box

I: so you found yourself

G: and you get squashed if you go outside the box

I: we're not gonna go their, right now.

G: Ok [laughs uncomfortably]

I You've had this tremendous success therefore and you've had tremendous success in film and therefore you are a quote celebrity right, which is a burden in and of itself, but you are also someone with a deep emotional commitment to your craft and to making the good prevail and when you go to sleep at night and you realize you've accomplished so much in terms of the Star Wars and the metaphors and the mythic dimensions to it and the force for the good and so forth how do you feel put the other stuff aside the negative aspects (why, George mentions politics and getting crushed by it, why not talk about that)

G: [Laughs], Yeah

G: Well obviously I feel good when I have kids and people come up and you know are shaking and want to say you know you've changed my life you feel good about that no matter no matter how many sort of intellectuals or whatever say you're you know an idiot you know that you've had an effect and when I sit in a movie and I watch people react I know it works and that's all I need to know as I know I've I've taken somebody on a trip that is going to make them a more interesting person and that's all I do. I don't think of any grand picture you know it's did I, most of the people in the silent era movies are forgotten and I assume that we will all be forgotten, but I have while i was here i tried to live a good life I tried to do the right thing I tried to make this a better world and you know people disagree about what's the better world and all that kind of stuff and I feel that my picture of a better world is as accurate as any I do even though I make the movies about it it's, the world to me is split into two halves you know the the selfish part and the giving compassionate part and we're all struggling with both of them and I know a lot of people that are thinking they're doing good but they're selfish and all they're doing is making the world a worse place

I: Well but you've struck a very powerful blow for the good there's no question about that well

G: if I'd have really made a

difference we wouldn't be sitting where

we are today with this country in the

mess that's it no I don't think so where

you've made the difference is in the

hearts of people and encourage them to

be their true selves and recognize their

commonality not everybody saw Star Wars

millions a night I hope maybe you're

playing people should have seen Star

Wars I only hope that those who have

seen Star Wars recognize the Emperor

when they see him yeah you know what you

are you ought to make your list of the

hundred people that should see Star Wars

and send them each and say just watch

this movie yeah but the evil people

don't you know the Emperor's don't see

it no matter how much you tell them they

can't see beyond their own greed and

anybody's talking about hate or you know

putting doing bad things to people they

are on the upper side there and it's

it's not hard to see people doing that

you see that isn't right you shouldn't

be saying bad things about people that's

not helping anybody but you're on the

for society well I'm on the side that

says you should treat people decently

and that yeah you can argue about

whatever you want to argue about but

we're all in this boat together

everybody's in it together and we're

gonna all sink or swim together and we

haven't been doing a very good job over

the last 10,000 years

all of my movies are about one thing

which is the fact that the only person

you're in is the president of your mind

and if you decide to open the door get

out you can't there's nothing stopping

there it is George Lucas thanks for much

for joining us thank you

[Music]

what interests you about the conflict

between good and evil well a conflict

between good and evil is the basic

conflict the universal question is am i

a good person I mean not counting social

misfits of course for people like you

and me

ya know I mean are you a good person I

try to be a good person but of course

that's a very complicated question it is

and it's something you have to ponder

because you're doing it every day you're

saying should I do this or shouldn't I

do this now

through mythology and things were taught

certain things that are good and certain

things that are bad but a thinking

person questions all that say is this

really good am I really doing the right

thing here

am I really being a kind compassionate

person because to me that's really about

a compassionate person as opposed to a

person that is consumed with

self-interest or a selfish person those

are the two things mm-hmm we all have

good and evil in us because we have the

selfish side of us and we have the

compassionate side of us the idea is how

do you keep those things in balance and

by keeping those things in balance you

can do a lot of good things you're never

gonna get everybody's human everybody's

greedy when you become greedy then you

do bad things to get stuff from other

people once you get that stuff then you

become afraid once you become afraid

that somebody's gonna take it from you

then you start striking out at people

and you start you get angry at things

you get worried didn't that put you in a

whole psychological mindset that makes

you turns you ultimately into an evil

person where you're doing two pourable

things two people thinking that you're

doing the right thing

but you're doing it because you're

afraid they're gonna hurt you before you

hurt them how did Joseph Campbell affect

your thinking when you were formulating

the ideas Joe Camel was a comparative

pathologist and the Joseph Campbell

angle really came out of my anthropology

classes when I was in college yeah I was

very curious about the way societies

work and why people do the things they

do in a society why they form their

ideas and I used to always think of

mythology as a form of psychological

archaeology you're not just thinking up

pieces to

look at them and try to figure out what

is what's going on with a society with

mythology you can actually understand

the psychological underpinnings of what

people actually were thinking what they

were afraid of what they felt about

their parents what you know the real

psychology of the whole thing so that's

what sort of started that whole process

and I had studied Joe Campbell I

continued to study Joe Campbell and I

really tried to take these psychological

motifs from mythology all over the world

as a result I was able to take ideas

that go through all societies through

all the ages and bring them down and put

them into a razzle-dazzle Saturday

matinee serial action-adventure film and

did you consciously think about when you

were making it you really wanted to make

this a force for the good yes part of it

is it bringing back some of those old

psychological motifs from mythology that

part of it was I just wanted to see if

they were still relevant I knew they

were but you don't really know a lot of

its turning to Freud and Jung and but

you you kind of know things are still

working that way a little bit but I

didn't know how much how much are just

the basics of what are friends for

why do you join together in a society to

help each other your relationship to

your father your relationship to the

generation that came before you that

seems to accrued everything up and how

do you feel about passing that on to

your kids and how do your kids feel

about the fact that you've been handed

this mess from the earlier generation

you know can you be stronger than your

father in terms of the temptations that

he was over you know the things he was

maybe able to come over overcome or not

overcome maybe he's very successful it

would still have a lot of flaws right so

there's a lot of complicated things that

are put in there you know there are

basic issues that you want to deal with

it's the same thing with a force which

is basically just like an amalgamation

of all religions and what all you know

ever since the very beginning it always

comes down to this mysterious thing that

we can't see that has some kind of power

over us and or we have power over it or

we go to it for help that explains a lot

of the things that the mysteries that we

can't explain any other way

for my Ally is the force

and appalled for colleges bleeds it

makes it grow its energy surrounds us

and binds us luminous beings are we not

this crude matter you must feel the

force around you you read you be asleep

everywhere yes even please this ship and

you wanted to bring spiritual traditions

together in a positive force yes to say

it's okay to believe whatever you

believe organizers religions have a

place but in the end when they start

saying things that are not positive and

are not compassionate they're not caring

you know the Inquisition's and all

killing people in the name of God is

wrong there's just no question about

because that's absolutely opposite of

what all gods

Shaymin everybody have taught us which

is God is love not God is hate so if you

were gonna put together you know the

power of this influence that Star Wars

has been in the world right and the kids

that come up to you they've come up to

you in different cultures yes all around

the world have any stories about that

one is just the look on their faces when

they talk about where their voice goes

which is you know really inspired things

you know we discovered early on with

with Star Wars because that was before

video tape and everything so we would

get requests when the first bar were

from hospitals there would be a child

who would be dying and they said can we

see the movie because he's not gonna

last the week hmm

so we'd show him the movie and he would

live for another six or nine months and

it wasn't once that this happened it

happened hundreds of times and you just

sort of say well whatever we're giving

them whatever inspiration would give

them allows them to take the struggle

further and you know and maybe embrace

the fact that it may not be that bad in

the end so

what do you think's in Star Wars helps

them do that well I just think the fact

that they that there is good in the

world and there's kindness in the world

and that they can go on and and laugh

and enjoy themselves and that there is

always change so if it changes down then

they will change back up again they

won't it's not like life is not a

constant so you're not just going

downhill or you're not just going uphill

and maybe they feel the force within and

then one might say that there's a

continuity so the child begins to think

well maybe there's something beyond

right well let's conceptually when you

get into the force and you get into the

Living force and the uber force which is

basically well however you want to call

it heaven or born again or however you

want to you know in terms of karma that

there is a continuum and that you join

the force

when you die and you lose your

personality but you become one with this

bigger living entity if you look at Star

Wars you know they're different kinds of

myth as a heroic myth there's the

Democratic myth there's religious myth

its economic myth where would you put

Star Wars in the context of those mythic

traditions well it's the hero's myth

really I mean it there's a whole

political side to it which is the same

as the mythological side of it which is

where you take one of the issues was is

how does a democracy turn itself into a

dictatorship which I was fascinated with

happens in Rome happened in France it

happened in Germany and what causes that

to happen so that was the political side

of things because the mythological side

was more psychological was more on the

personal side of relationships and how

people were doing things so we had the

head of the Stanford School of Design on

David Kelly we talked about creativity

and he was saying that your creative

tell you about the fourth grade and then

it pushes you into a channel and so the

key to be creative is to find the child

that you were well the thing is being

creative basically means and have an

imagination

it means you

work inside the box you know like the

beaten in the box when did you realize

you were outside the box pretty early on

that's why I didn't do well in school

how did you learn to trust you're

outside the box Ness well I didn't

really trust it until I got into film

school and I realized that I could do

something that I could do that nobody

else could do so suddenly I was like the

best of everybody there is because the

way I was thinking was normally not the

way other people thought and and I could

see very clearly the ones that were

trying to follow the box the ones that

we're trying to put Tab A and to tap B

and that's God they weren't gonna ever

go anywhere you know you had to say that

doesn't work guys look if you work

inside the box you'll never win the game

that's where politics come in because

politics is a big box so you found

yourself and you get squashed you've had

this tremendous success therefore and

you've had tremendous success in film

and therefore you are a quote celebrity

right which is a burden in and of itself

but you are also someone with a deep

emotional commitment to your craft and

to making the good prevail and when you

go to sleep at night and you realize

you've accomplished so much in terms of

the Star Wars and the metaphors and the

mythic dimensions to it and the force

for the good and so forth how do you

feel put the other stuff aside the

negative aspects yeah well obviously I

feel good when I have kids and people

come up and you know are shaking and

want to say you know you've changed my

life you feel good about that no matter

no matter how many sort of intellectuals

or whatever say you're you know an idiot

you know that you've had an effect and

when I sit in a movie and I watch people

react I know it works and that's all I

need to know as I know I've I've taken

somebody on a trip that is going to make

them a more interesting person and

that's all I do I don't think of any

grand

picture you know it's did i most of the

people in the silent era movies are

forgotten and i assume that we will all

be forgotten but i have while i was here

i tried to live a good life i tried to

do the right thing i tried to make this

a better world and you know people

disagree about what's the better world

and all that kind of stuff and I feel

that my picture of a better world is as

accurate as any I do even though I make

the movies about it it's world to be a

split into two halves you know the the

selfish part and the giving

compassionate part and we're all

struggling with both of them and I know

a lot of people that are thinking

they're doing good but they're selfish

and all they're doing is making the

world a worse place well but you've

struck a very powerful blow for the good

there's no question about that

well if I'd have really made a

difference we wouldn't be sitting where

we are today with this country in the

mess that's it no I don't think so where

you've made the difference is in the

hearts of people and encourage them to

be their true selves and recognize their

commonality not everybody saw Star Wars

millions a night I hope maybe you're

playing people should have seen Star

Wars I only hope that those who have

seen Star Wars recognize the Emperor

when they see him yeah you know what you

are you ought to make your list of the

hundred people that should see Star Wars

and send them each and say just watch

this movie yeah but the evil people

don't you know the Emperor's don't see

it no matter how much you tell them they

can't see beyond their own greed and

anybody's talking about hate or you know

putting doing bad things to people they

are on the upper side there and it's

it's not hard to see people doing that

you see that isn't right you shouldn't

be saying bad things about people that's

not helping anybody but you're on the

for society well I'm on the side that

says you should treat people decently

and that yeah you can argue about

whatever you want to argue about but

we're all in this boat together

everybody's in it together and we're

gonna all sink or swim together and we

haven't been doing a very good job over

the last 10,000 years

all of my movies are about one thing

which is the fact that the only person

you're in is the president of your mind

and if you decide to open the door get

out you can't there's nothing stopping

there it is George Lucas thanks for much

for joining us thank you==Citation and Legal== Treat the SpiritWiki as an open-access online monograph or structured textbook. You may freely use information in the SpiritWiki; however, attribution, citation, and/or direct linking are ethically required.

Footnotes

  1. ↑ Lucasfilm Fan Club - George Lucas Joseph Campbell Mythology, Religion, Creativity, 2018. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpXdM3i5V0
  2. ↑ Lucasfilm Fan Club - George Lucas Joseph Campbell Mythology, Religion, Creativity, 2018. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpXdM3i5V0
  3. ↑ Lucasfilm Fan Club - George Lucas Joseph Campbell Mythology, Religion, Creativity, 2018. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpXdM3i5V0
  4. ↑ Lucasfilm Fan Club - George Lucas Joseph Campbell Mythology, Religion, Creativity, 2018. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpXdM3i5V0
  5. ↑ Isaac Feldberg, “Daisy Ridley Reveals the Terrifying Advice J.J. Abrams Gave Her For Star Wars,” Inverse, 2024, https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/daisy-ridley-interview-star-wars-sometimes-i-think-about-dying.



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